I just completed a vigorous e-mail exchange on a topic I'm a little behind on.
The proposition was: 'How US foreign policy has been hijacked by individuals who possess dual loyalties."
Supporting documentation given to me:
By Pat Buchanan: Whose War? 'A neoconservative clique seeks to ensnare our country in a series of wars that are not in America’s interest.'
Business Week: An Issue Too Hot for Fahrenheit? '...The film goes on about filial revenge and oil, but it never ventures onto really touchy turf -- namely the role of fiercely pro-Israel neocon hawks in convincing Bush to go to war.'
Paul Craig Roberts: Propaganda's Forward March. 'In pursuit of their agenda, neoconservatives have shown no respect for facts or persons.'
And for the mother of all neocon conspiracy links collections: The genesis of the war on Iraq - Or - How the neocons hijacked the 'war on terror'.
The context for the discussion was this: Someone circulated an e-mail titled 'Pictures From Iraq That Are Too Shocking and Graphic for The Mainstream Media', with a slew of photos of U.S. troops doing good things on the ground in Iraq, and being warmly received by the locals.
Someone who got the e-mail fired back with a succession of e-mails containing numerous links like the above, propagating the idea that the entire war was a mistake, it is going terribly, and a group of neoconservatives foisted it on the U.S. in order to help Israel. There's actually a lot more to it than that, but there's the gist of it.
My initial reply to him was this:
This post was initiated by a woman who sent some nice images of US troops doing good things and being well received in Iraq. You responded with two posts containing/linking a slew of very derogatory - though, for the Left, well-worn - arguments that pretty much everything is going wrong in Iraq and everything was initiated because of utterly base motives. I normally ignore this type of nonsense, which can be found in heaps all around the Web and of course in the progressive press, as the rantings of an increasingly powerless political segment.
But because part of the 'information' you offered up was of the half-truth variety a la 'expert' Juan Cole (hey, he speaks Arabic, therefore he is right about everything!), and I had nothing else to do during lunch, I took the bait and fired off a response. I find it annoying when these ankle-biting type of complaints are heralded as major news: So Iraq is not going to have a pure Jeffersonian democracy? How could this be! Their Constitution may be tainted with artifacts of Sharia law? Who'd a thunk it! Restrictions on 'un-Islamic' behavior? Outrage! Next thing you know they'll have women wearing the hijab!
I hate to see this type of misrepresentation, but in retrospect, I should have let it die because this was never going to turn into any type of 'discussion' of any issue. On top of that, I did not address the specific things wrong with your two e-mails but instead just responded with arguments about the Left in general couched in a series of satirical statements, in the truly lame 'my links versus your links' form which has got to be one of the Internet's greatest contributions to modern intellectual decline. Not exactly a constructive foundation...and an almost exclusively emotional response. And now it has evoked two, three - how many? - further similar e-mails from you to the entire group. Nobody on this recipient list signed up for this argument, and one person who I removed from the address group of this e-mail already has gotten pretty angry about it...
He then replied courteously to me with this:
...The Iraq war as you can see has divided this country to the point that if you do not agree with the administration's foreign policy of pre-emptive war you are labeled 'un patriotic'. We should all take heed of TR's quote 'Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official...'
What was so derogatory about the following links that I e-mailed?...
...Along with these links I included the following statement with links about the neocons.
'And as we look at these photos and admire the spirit and pray for our troops in Iraq let us not forget the neocons who sent our servicemen and women into harms way!'
Was Pat Buchanan's article 'Whose War?' that appeared in 'The American Conservative' derogatory or Leftist in it's content?
I wonder how many of those I replied to know who the neocons are and what role they have played in taking our country to war?
The last question raised of the last sentence of Justin Raimondo's somewhat 'controversial' op ed 'Iraq: What Are We Fighting For?' pretty much sums it all up - 'Soon, they will be asking: Who lost Iraq? As well they might. Yet I fear another question far more: Who lost America? We all live in dread of the answer'...
I did not mean to offend anyone's feelings. (My older son is serving in the Navy overseas) My intent was to inform but evidently both sides have closed minds on the issue of how US foreign policy has been hijacked by individuals who possess dual loyalties.
Perhaps 25 or 50 years from now our children and grandchildren will know the truth.
And here is my final reply:
Obviously I did not mean each specific link used in the context of making the larger point was derogatory, it was the larger point I was referring to. And I know exactly what that larger point is. The fact that Pat Buchanan has contributed to the argument does not really mitigate my contention that it's a 'Leftist' argument - though I agree with Pat on many things I realize labeling he and, say, Bill Kristol as 'conservatives' in the same sentence requires 'conservative' to be put in quotes. But I will grant you it would be more accurate to leave the ideological label out and just refer to the 'neocon conspiracy argument' or whatever those who believe in it would call it.
All that being said, the idea that US foreign policy has been hijacked by a cabal of individuals possessing dual loyalties is, I believe, 'derogatory' in the sense that I don't happen to believe it is true and therefore I think propagandizing in its favor does an injustice to the legitimate reasons our country went to war with Iraq. Those of us with family and friends currently serving, who believe those people are serving in a worthwhile cause, may find it offensive to hear that cause being run down based on the types of 'evidence' you've propounded.
If you do believe in the conspiracy theory, then of course you view it as simply telling the truth, which should not be considered derogatory. Based on our differing assumptions, therefore, we will be on different sides of that particular question. But I think you can see why those on my side would consider the things you circulated to be, on the whole, 'derogatory.'
I am conversant with several people - a couple folks who are firmly liberal, one a libertarian conservative, and one a 'paleo-conservative - who respectively make some of the same arguments reflected in the information you point to with your links, so I've heard it all. What I think is off-base about it is this: If one accepts the notion that the Iraq regime was associating with international terrorist organizations, then taking steps to remove that regime from power was a good idea REGARDLESS OF THE FACT THAT EVERYTHING MAY NOT HAVE BEEN DONE PERFECTLY OR WITH PERFECT FORESIGHT.
The fact that the Bush administration and the coalition provisional authority are responsible for some screw-ups and obviously did not have a perfect crystal ball about what the aftermath would bring, does not mean it was not a good idea nor that anyone else would have been able to do it any better.
Sure, there were voices warning about precisely the type of situation that has come to pass, and other voices that argued differently. Listening to the second group was a big mistake. However - and please take good note of this point - some people don't think it is possible to conduct the perfect war, and do think that big mistakes have been made in every war. This is why Bush was re-elected, and why, in my view, the Left (please excuse the generalization) is having so much trouble getting a sympathetic hearing from many Americans.
Regarding the question of support for this administration: It's not about saying support of Bush in all things is required to be 'patriotic.' It's just saying we believe they are conducting the war in good faith, even if imperfectly.
If you recall, the only choice we had last November was between Bush, with all his flaws, and a guy who, when he could say anything at all with certainty, said what he would have done differently is to 'bring in the French and the Germans.' You don't have to be a blind supporter of George W. Bush to think that was a pretty silly assertion.
Again, maybe you believe the French and Germans do have the answers for our problems in Iraq; I personally think they were on Saddam's payroll, first of all, and secondly that they don't necessarily agree the U.S. should be able to take whatever steps necessary to ensure our security. I know people in Europe and here who honestly believe we deserved what we got on Sept 11, and also believe the U.S. could stand to be taken down a few MORE notches. (I'm assuming you are not one of these, right?) So pardon my narrow-mindedness, but I am skeptical about what certain European countries could bring to the table in terms of advising us on Iraq and the war on terror in general.
So at the risk of overgeneralizing, here is another reason many Americans support the Bush administration. It's not because the 'neocons' have been able to secretly hijack our foreign policy and the news media. It's because we honestly agree with the Bush administration's basic contentions. No WMDs found? Though that was surprising it made not one whit of difference in our support for the operation in Iraq. We believe Saddam had pernicious intentions. You can ridicule that idea, or mock it by asking whether we are going to go to war against every country whose intentions we mistrust, or ask why we didn't go to war with North Korea instead. We've heard all that a million times and, to us, it is a silly line of questioning. Saddam should have been taken out, period.
You can argue about this until you are blue in the face, and you won't convince us otherwise, because the basis of your arguments does not ring true. We don't think the 'neocons' have hijacked anything: We just tend to agree with them. The sooner the Left accepts this fact and "moves on" to other lines of argument, the sooner they may be able to see increased support.
However, in my view they won't do this. Instead they will continue to attack Bush's motives, spread the conspiracy theories, argue that Saddam was a benign dictator and the war has been a waste of American lives. Instead of dealing with what is to us the obvious fact that Iraq is a critical front in the war on terror because of Saddam's documented history of support for terrorist organizations and hostility to the US, they think the way to winning the argument is downplaying the menace Saddam was.
We think - and again please forgive the generalization but I am honestly trying to give you a window into this point of view - there are many facts supporting the idea that Saddam was a threat, and only a few supporting the idea he wasn't. In order to take the latter viewpoint one has to give Saddam the benefit of the doubt.
One would have to say, 'Technically, he may not have a been a danger, and should be considered innocent until he has been proven guilty beyond the shadow of a doubt.' We think this is just nuts. And one of the key methods of framing the debate by the Left seems to be as a duel between rival coteries of experts - 'If you think YOUR experts are right, then have a listen to what MY experts have to say.' All I can say is, good luck with that.
As I said, I have friends/acquaintances who make the same arguments you are making, so I do understand how reasonable people can come to such conclusions. I just think you've been misled. You are aware the conspiracy theory positing an internal minority with 'dual allegiences' has a rich tradition in American history, right? Masons, Catholics, and Jews have all had their turn to come under suspicion. I know I am not a skilled enough rhetorician to change anyone's mind - heaven knows I've tried to do so with my friends and have failed miserably - but I will say: Be skeptical about conspiracy theories, be very skeptical.
Thank you for the civil reply and the opportunity for vigorous debate. I agree that 20 or 30 years from now, most of these questions will have been settled.
I was going to add 'assuming the neocons haven't completely taken over the world' but figured that would just be mean-spirited.
The paranoid style of the modern progressive, to paraphrase Richard Hofstadter, deserves further examination, because otherwise reasonable people have succumbed to it in droves.